Re: Radnabenmotor #
geschrieben von: Andy Mühlebach user status icon global
Datum: 25. Oktober 2006 19:05
Hallo Harald
Ja es gibt Neues, aber leider nicht sehr Erfreuliches!!!
Ich hänge den gesamten Schrift-Verkehr einfach mal an:
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your interest in our products. I have attached some general information about our wheel motors and the accompanying drives below. The wheel motor shown in the outline drawing is the one we used in the Mini QED. It contains our new Hi-Pa drive system. Unfortunately we do not currently have a datasheet available about this new drive technology. The eDrives such as our AMBER drive, have already been used in many applications around the world over the last few years.
<> <> <> <> <<009134[A] - EW40,45 - Prov Motor Outline .pdf>>
Our EW Series wheel motors are very flexible and can be wound to give different speeds and voltages depending on each customer’s individual requirements. If you would like more specific advice about using these products, or you need a quotation, please provide us with the following details about your application;
Vehicle weight (kg)
Number of driven wheels
Diameter of tyre (rolling diameter)
Internal wheel hub diameter (Space available for our motor) Determines max diameter of motor.
Max speed required (km/hour)
Max acceleration required (say 0-100km/hour or 0- top speed)
Frontal area of vehicle (m2)
Max incline to climb (% or degrees)
Time to climb incline (sec)
Water-cooled/Air-cooled
Preferred voltage
Project timescale (no. of prototypes required by what date)
Annual requirement
Target price per motor
With this information we can model the motor and propose the best solution. This information will also determine which drive is required.
Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any questions or need further assistance.
Best regards,
Rebecca Boughtwood
Internal Sales Co-ordinator
PML FlightLink Ltd. Riverwey Industrial Park,Newman Lane,Alton, Hants GU34 2QW
Direct Phone +44 (0) 1420 594141
Switchboard +44 (0) 1420 594140
Fax +44 (0) 1420 83930
E-mail rebeccab@pmlflightlink.com
____________________________________________________________________
Dear Rebecca
Thank you for answering so fast!
I try to answer your questions as far as I am able to give an answer…
Vehicle weight (kg)
– empty 464kg
– total max weight 695kg
Number of driven wheels
– 1
Diameter of tyre (rolling diameter)
– approx. 55cm (Michelin 175/65 R15 XT1 TL)
Internal wheel hub diameter (Space available for our motor) Determines max diameter of motor.
– Rear Rims 5 1/2 J 15H 2-4-18
Max speed required (km/hour)
– arround 120km/h
Max acceleration required (say 0-100km/hour or 0- top speed)
– 10 – max.15 sec. (with 2 person)
Frontal area of vehicle (m2)
– I will send you by the beginning of next week
Max incline to climb (% or degrees)
– ? 20-25%??
Time to climb incline (sec)
– ?
Water-cooled/Air-cooled
– Water cooled
Preferred voltage
– 170 – 200V
Project timescale (no. of prototypes required by what date)
– open
Annual requirement
– 5 (there are 80 Prototypes, we guess that at least 25 to 30 would like to change if there is an advantage)
Target price per motor
– …affordable….. 
)
Have a nice weekend
Andy Mühlebach
____________________________________________________________________
Dear Andreas,
Many thanks for the information. Please could you check the ‘max incline’ figure as 20% is very steep. Also, please provide the other information that you previously left blank so that we can use the figures to calculate which motor and drive you will need.
Best regards,
Rebecca Boughtwood
____________________________________________________________________
Dear Rebecca,
if there are any more questions, dont hesitate…
Frontal area of vehicle (m2)
– approx. 1.4 m2 in total (body and wheels)
but because of its form the cw-factor is pretty low!
Max incline to climb (% or degrees)
– ? 20-25%?? / It is a normal street-car. What do you suggest? …reduce it to what you would say is convenient!
Time to climb incline (sec)
– When I say 15min climbing time, would this be too much in your eyes? (were living in Switzerland!!!)
Diameter of tyre (rolling diameter)
– 60cm (Michelin 175/65 R15 XT1 TL)
Internal wheel hub diameter (Space available for our motor) Determines max diameter of motor.
– Rear Rims 5 1/2 J 15H 2-4-18 33cm (maybe even 34cm) so 32.5cm (maybe 33.5cm) space für your motor’s diameter / depth: max. 11.5cm incl. disc break. (or als slim and as light as possible)
If necessary, we would design a new rim-axle-beak-construction, so the dimensions we have given you above are guaranteed.
Please give me an idea of the prices as well …to see if our cars can anly be driven by millionnaires….
Best regards,
Andy Mühlebach
____________________________________________________________________
Morning Andy,
Thanks for the vehicle data you provided. We can now submit our proposal;
If you can accommodate 400mm diameter wheel motors and increase your voltage requirement to 320V DC then you can use our existing Mini motors, the
EW40/45SWHD with internal Hi-Pa drive system.
<<009134[A] - EW40,45 - Prov Motor Outline .pdf>>
Pricing:
EW40/45SWHD wheel motor with internal Hi-Pa drive, GBP £9000.00 each, ex works
Lead time will be approx. 14 to 16 weeks from receipt of order and 50% payment. Upon receipt of your official purchase order we will send you a proforma invoice with our bank details attached. Your order will be processed when the funds reach our account. The remaining 50% will be due for payment before we despatch the goods.
All prices are ex works Alton and are valid for 30 days. All orders are subject to PMLs standard terms and conditions of sale, see attached.
Details below:
EW Wheel motor spec based on customer Vehicle performance data provided.
Maximum Vehicle speed kph 120
Tyre outer Diameter m 0.6
Rim Diameter m 0.33
Number of Driven Wheels 1
Vehicle Gross Weight kg 695
Coeficient of Rolling Resistance 0.013
Vehicle Frontal area m^2 1.4
Required acceleration rate g 0.278
Maximum Hill incline degrees 7.97
Battery Volts Nominal Volts 320
Battery Volts Maximum Volts 320
Motor output requirement based on above vehicle data
Units Total Per Wheel
Torque to climb hill Nm 291.58 291.58
Torque to accelerate Nm 595.21 595.21
Torque to hold max speed Nm 123.77 123.77
Torque to overcome rolling resistance Nm 26.59 26.59
Motor Selection
Above Motor Estimated Performance Units
Continuous rated torque Nm 605.28
Motor Speed Required rpm 1061.00
Rotor OD m 0.40
Motor Voltage Vdc 320.00
Rated Current A 233.01
Mid Range Current A 273.3
Mid range Eff % 45
Rated Power W 67251.7
Rated Eff % 58.6
Estimated Mass kg 17.9
Active Mass kg 10.71
Torque to active mass ratio Nm/kg 56.50
Estimated motor performance curve.
Please do not hesitate to contact us if you need any further information.
Best regards,
Rebecca Boughtwood
____________________________________________________________________
Hello Rebecca
I could check if 320V DC is possible – normally we run on 172 to 200V depending on the Batteries.
The 400mm diameter I guess we could handle, the deliverytime, approx. 16 weeks, we could live with, but with the price we are far away from our budget – this motor for itself would cost the double than the value of the complete car as it is built now (approx £ 4’300 to 5000.- depending on the batteries) …
But tell me, we have now a 12kW motor (that is electronically limited!) and that is quite a big difference with the 55 kW motor that you suggested!? Our motor is direct drive (no gearing) therefore its all about torque not power. I guess the motor you mention is a high speed motor driving through a gearhead? Our motors are designed to be low speed high torque direct drive motors.
Is there nothing else to do?
I think I saw that you have other engines in the 14kW range, would’nt this be more something for us? If we can drive the differential it may be a possibility depending on the speed required. Can you tell me the diff ratio?
Thank you!
Andy
____________________________________________________________________
Hi Andy,
Sorry for the delay. The pricing given was based on 1pc prototypes. In volumes above 5000pcs/year the price will be approximately 10% of the prototype price.
Unfortunately 1 offs always carry a price premium.
Best regards,
Rebecca
____________________________________________________________________
Hi Rebecca
Thank you for the answer!
I guess we would not reach 5000 pcs a year because there are maximum 5 to 8 units /y
If you could answer on our questions, that would help us alot – we would be dreaming to buy an motor like the one in the Mini, we guess that would be far to much power.
Please check my last e-mail further down
Best regards,
Andy
____________________________________________________________________
Hello Rebecca
Our existing motor is an 3 phases permanent magnet brushless motor with 12 terminals and a rated voltage of 186V (max. phase current 250A). It has a gear reduction (5.54 :1) with a synchronous belt drive.
Our 15 kW motor (at > 1800 rpm) is water cooled, energy recuperation while braking up to 10 kW and the rpm-range is up to max. 5400 rpm (= max. 120km/h).
Torque is reduced to 80Nm from >1800 rpm (>40km/h).
These are the technical facts on the existing car now.
It seems to me similar to look foe a wheel motor, going with 14.5 kW, torque > 440Nm – running at 920 rpm (and all the rest more or less the same)
Am I wrong?
As I am an architect…. – it is really not my business….
Thank you for giving light to the dark spots in my brain!
Best regards
Andy
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Hi Andy,
When removing the gearhead and direct driving the power rating is not the issue. The critical figure is the torque requirement. This often results in a motor capable of more power than the maths say is required because we need the torque.
i.e as below, 440Nm at 920rpm is actually 40Kw.
We hope this helps.
Best regards,
Rebecca